Subluxation: A Chiropractic crock of shit!
Note: this is an ongoing thread.. Please read the comments too..
Subluxation is a real medical term, it is an incomplete or partial dislocation (latin: luxatio) of a joint or an organ. As such if you have a subluxation, a dislocated joint or organ, you need to seek real medical attention.
Recently I hurt my neck — I don’t know exactly what I did, but whatever it was it hurts. I *think* I slept wrong on it and it has hurt for days. We have a sleep number bed and it slowly loses air over the course of a month or so, so if you don’t every once in a while bump it back up you end up sleeping on a really really soft (incorrect) bed. And since I’m no longer 12, any hurt I get seems to take a while to heal.
I find it amusing that half the time the ad above is a “find chiropractors in your area” ad… I can’t control that.. I do find it amusing though..
I have corrected the soft bed issue, but that doesn’t solve the immediate problem of the neck ache. Truth be told, the only thing that will really resolve it is time. Especially if its a pinched nerve or something like that.
However, I mentioned to my sister that I had this issue during one of our calls and she suggested that I seek the attention of a chiropractor. Now let me preface this by saying, I have always thought of chiropractors as charlatans. However, I fully realize that this opinion had previously been largely driven by the media, television, movies and other peoples opinions. No personal experiences. No real clue that they were snake oil pushers, just a preconceived notion that they were a bunch of slack jawed flim flam salesmen.
I realize that this isn’t fair of me at all and so when my sister suggested it, I figured.. what the hell.. I’m going to have an open mind about this, and give it a try. I’ve been wrong before, surely I can be wrong again. I wasn’t.. but I’m getting ahead of myself.
I shopped around a bit and went with a chiropractor located here in Austin sorta near my work. He has a very big practice, with a lot of people coming and going in a high traffic area off Anderson lane near one of my favorite Korean places. I walked in, made an appointment for the next day, and walked out. The office has a very professional atmosphere so I figured I had made a good choice.
I asked the receptionist roughly how much these things go for because I had never gone to a chiropractor before and had no Earthly clue. She told me that visits usually ran anywhere between $47 and $247. To which I said, “So, $247?” She chuckled and played off my joke. I mention that because it’s important later.
The next day came and I went to the appointment at 4:45. I got there early, and sat down filling out the “paperwork” which mostly consisted of questions like “Did you ever falldown and go boom as a child?” — “Were you ever abused as a child?” — “Did your parents spank you?” — etc.. A lot of questions dealing with my past, not really medical in nature but rather general questions about events that could possibly have left some sort of scaring or emotional trauma.
Frankly, I found most of the questions to be somewhat creepy, and not really related what so ever to the issue at hand. But, again trying to have an open mind .. I filled out the form.
I waited for a while, and eventually the receptionist introduced me to a female “doctor.” Who was very kind (everyone was pretty nice) and showed me the office. Once she was done with that she took me to an “exam room” and told me the doctor would be there soon.
Now, I use the term exam room really really lightly here.. It was a room with a computer, a scale and a model of the human spine. I’m not sure why they called it an exam room as nothing akin to an exam really took place. I mean the “doctor” stood me up and looked at me, had me stand in front of a mirror and proceeded to mumble about how much was wrong. “You see how one ear is clearly visible and the other isn’t.. that’s because you turn your head … a clear sign of subluxation.”
Sub-what?
This was the root of all my evils, my clear signs of subluxation! They were pushing the subluxation problems left and right!
My ears aren’t even, thus I turn my head when I stand — a sign of subluxation. My shoulders aren’t even when I stand — a sign of subluxation. My hips clearly rotate! — a sign of subluxation. My right leg is shorter than my left leg — subluxation! When I stand on two scales, my weight isn’t perfectly distributed between them which means I’m shifting my weight because of… You guessed it.. Subluxation.
Realistically I think all of those things are a very clear sign that I’m a Human being, and as such not a perfectly synchronous creature.. but hey, I’m not a MD.. (Neither are they mind you..)
Between the two doctors, they actually said “subluxation” so much, the word started to lose meaning… er, not that it had much to begin with.
During this whole interview process, and lets be honest that’s exactly what it was, they were interviewing me to see if I’d be a good sucker. I went along with everything, thus they then switched to trying to convince me that I was in dire need of their services.
At the end of the little interview with the main quac..er doctor he kind of went over prices.. He basically said, “oh and uh, this is going to run normally about.. uh “.. *doing mental calculation* .. “lets see.. ” *looking at the sky* … *carry the one* … ” roughly 5 xrays at $40 each plus the $47 exam .. so that will be $247 dollars.”
He made a big show of not being sure of the price and having to “figure it out”.. What a douche.. I already knew the price, because of the little joke between me and the receptionist above. Hey what do you know, its exactly the amount she told me was the max.
This is where I got the “used car salesman” vibe from him, he just came off completely slimy. But golly a really swell guy. At this point everything is screaming scam.. I mean absolutely screaming.. But, in the interest of being open minded and really really wanting the neck pain to go away I continued on.
The main doctor went away. This would be the last time I saw him that day, and I had only seen him for maybe 15 minutes during the interview process when he was determining if he’d be able to bilk another sucker.
At this point they shuffled me off to a secondary examination room that had a special thermal machine which would give them some super secret special information about my back. In short, it measured the skin temperature of my spine.. They had me take my shirt off and rolled this gun looking thing with two wheels on either side of the nose, up my back and the results were… A squiggly line on the monitor. This was a very important test, and I’m sure it gave them loads of data! er.. or it gave them a squiggly line.. Not sure..
After the squiggly line test, I went and got my x-rays. I say I “went”.. I didn’t actually go anywhere but into the next room where the female doctor sat me down every which way in front of a very old x-ray machine and took some pictures.
This seemed all wrong. I asked her, “are you licensed to run this machine?”, I got no answer so I asked; “are you an x-ray tech or something?” to which she replied “No. I’m a doctor.”
I asked, “A medical doctor?” to which she said “No, I’m a chiropractic doctor.. I went to school for eight years.”
uh.. okay. Well, I mean I don’t know better.. I assume that means she’s qualified.. She seems to think she is and she seems to sorta know what she’s doing. The equipment seemed old, and I wasn’t given any kind of lead apron protection but who knows if that even does anything.. Either way it still seemed kinda iffy to me.
The other thing was the x-ray “gun” was pointed directly at the wall, which means it was right at the Korean restuarant next door. That wall isn’t very thick. The room didn’t seem like a special room or anything.. it just seemed like a regular room that they put an x-ray machine in. I mean I don’t know Texas law on this but that really doesn’t seem right. Surely there must be some kind of radiographer certificate that is required by the operator, and more over some sort of license for the machine and the room itself.
Once the x-rays were taken the female doctor explained to me that the doctor would need to “go over the x-rays and study them to see if they can help me.” I sort of assumed this would take a few minutes and then the doctor would come in and talk to me further.
No. No, no you poor fool. No this takes many many hours, and “they wouldn’t be able to get to it today.” She sent me to the receptionist who then proceeded to ask for payment.
Wait.. Nothings been done and my neck still hurts..
At this point I had 15 minutes of forms, followed by a maybe-20 minute (at most) chat with the doctor, followed by a 2 minute back roll squiggly line test, followed by probably 30 minutes of x-rays. No “adjustments”.. No explanations of whats wrong.. nothing. Just a thanks, see ya.. pay up front.
The receptionist collected the $247, and made my next appointment where they would go over the results of my x-rays and “all the other tests”(?!) — A WEEK LATER.
I paid. I left. I was still in pain. I was pissed.
What the hell did I just pay for?! Because what I got was a 5 won plane ride.. (that’s a Korean saying.. it means I was just taken for a ride or I was rolled.. or I was screwed)
I expected a little more.. hell, I expected anything.. I got bubkiss. Fine.. I went home, still hurting.
At this point I’m starting to do research and have seen a lot of different sites and people say that chiropractors are fakes. And any chiropractor that uses “subluxation” is a complete sham artist. I’m not getting a good vibe at all from everything I’m reading.
What shocks me is the number of folks that were coming in and out of this place. I mean it was stocked to the gills with happy people.. I’ve been there 3 times now, the appointment, the initial visit and the visit I’m about to talk about, and each time there were 10 to 20 people in and out getting stuff done. This place does a lot of business.
That alone made me think, that there must be SOMETHING to this. I mean this many people can’t all be complete suckers.. Surely they aren’t all dolts. There were business professionals in suits coming in and getting “adjustments”.. Mothers and fathers with kids, students, athletes.. surely they can’t all be idiots falling for some sucker trick.
Clearly I’m just letting my biases get to me.
So fine. I will wait and go to the next appointment. I seriously thought it was just me and that I was being silly..
The problem being, they did nothing to address my immediate problem. I still have neck pain. The next day, I mentioned my experience to some folks I work with and one of them suggested going to a massage place here in town. I jumped at it. Hell, it had to be better than what I had done so far.
I went and got a massage from Susan Parker the lead massage therapist at Massage Envy. It was great! At one point she did tug on my neck a little which did hurt, but I know she was trying to help and when I said ouchies, she stopped and was apologetic about it. A good massage. I will go back and would recommend her. (Though, warning; Do NOT say “You can push harder, you wont hurt me.” Dear god don’t say that.. ever.. )
Right before my massage, I was called by the chiropractor and told that the doctor wanted to see me. He had an opening at 3, and wanted me to come by. This was a little worrying, I mean usually if the doctor wants to see you as soon as you have a chance, you have something wrong with you and he has nothing but bad news.
That was my first thought, then I realized that my experiences up to now had pretty much proved that he would do whatever it took to try to play on my fears.. thus this fits right in. Almost had me there. But I assuaged my fears by telling myself, this guy is still trying to play me. Sure enough, I was right.
After Susan finished abusi..er.. massaging me.. =) (she really was very nice.) I went to the chiropractors office. I felt pretty good and figured that everything would be much easier for the chiropractor since I was nice and limber. I sat in the little waiting area for probably 20 minutes, then was called over to the table.
I layed down, the chiropractor came over and told me that he took a look at my x-ray and saw a major subluxation in my neck and that he bets that I was in pain. Never mind that I told him exactly that the day before.
I said that yes my neck is still sore. He then tried to play on my fears by saying that we’ll we have to fix that subluxation because Christopher Reeve‘s neck injury was in the same location. Mind you I haven’t ridden a horse in 25 years, but okay.. fine.
This more than annoyed me by the way, I actually was somewhat offended though I don’t know why. I mean I don’t know what kind of traction he was hoping to get with me here but he didn’t need to bring “Superman” into it. I have nothing but the deepest respect for Christopher Reeve and his family, I felt this was a slight. I can’t actually put my finger on why though..
Anyway, he still hasn’t gone over my x-rays, or the squiggly line test with me. In fact, he hasn’t talked much to me at all other than to make sure I was still on the hook and to attempt to play on my fears..
He layed me down and “examined” my legs and pointed out that I clearly had some subluxtion as my right leg was shorter than my left, due to my drastic back misalignment. He then rolled me on my side and proceeded to position me using this table and headrest jig that I can only describe as being some form of torture device.
I mean my head was forced top down at an odd angle and my neck was exposed up and in a very unnatural position while on my side. He then started poking and prodding my neck, and for the briefest of moments I think I knew what it felt to like to be Marie Antoinette just before they pulled the leaver.. It was extremely uncomfortable, and I felt very exposed.
He then pulled out a device that he did name, but I forget what it was called.. So I can only call it the “thumper”. It sorta looks like a hot glue gun, but has a little rubber extention where the glue would come out. And when you pull the trigger it goes *thump*. Extremely lightly.
He proceeded to explain that this device will help to realign my spine. I’m dubious.
Before he began he jammed his fingers into the center of my back and asked, does that hurt? Dear god yes it hurt — it felt like he just stabbed me with a hunk of steel. So I said, yes that hurts. He kind of mumbles “mm yeah.. subluxation..”…
Then he applies his thumper. This thing hit about as hard as you could if you were to flick something with your finger.. I mean it did virtually nothing. He would push it fairly firmly into the side of my exposed neck and then pull the trigger.. *thump* He did this 4 or 5 times.. then moved it a tad, and thumped a few more times..
At the end he put it down, and touched the center of my back in a way that I can only describe as a gentle caress and said, “I bet that doesn’t hurt as much now that I’ve corrected your neck.” — Well.. Yeah.. you’re not pressing as hard ya doofus.
He then goes down to my feet and says “Hey your feet are now aligned perfectly. ”
Do I really come across as this stupid? OH my god you’ve healed me! er wait.. No, my neck still fucking hurts..
He then said he was done. He proceeded to explain that I’d notice the changes very little in the beginning but would notice it more over time — say 6 to 9 weeks worth of treatments. “Thats how long these things take.” Thanks for coming. See ya next time.
Time spent: 40 minutes? Maybe? And that includes the 20 minutes I waited in the waiting area.
Still haven’t gone over the x-rays, the squiggly line test or even talked to me really. They ushered me up to the front, demanded another $47 and sent me on my way. This time I have no appointment for the next “treatment”.. er.. “adjustment”.. er.. what do I call this?! The receptionist just said, “the doctor will call you.”
So I’m done with this fucker.. This whole thing is a crock of shit. In the 6 to 9 weeks that he is performing his “healing” my body will likely heal itself. Something I’m sure he’ll be happy to take credit for.
I think I’ve been pretty open minded and fair. At every turn when my bullshit meter was screaming at me, I silenced it and just went on. I’m a software engineer for IBM and I was an intelligence analyst in the military — I think I’m a fairly intelligent guy who can see patterns and can validly call shenanigans when I see them.
This guy is a complete sham. Which means that chiropractors everywhere are likely a complete scam. I wanted to believe otherwise, I was trying .. I had an open mind.. Bullshit.. This whole thing is a lie.. If this is what chiropractors do then they are a bunch of ballwashin bastards..
I really got the sense that this chiropractic thing is something that if you don’t believe in it, it wont work. THAT’S NOT MEDICINE! I can not believe in penicillin, and the shit will still work — because that’s what medicine is. Your beliefs don’t enter into it.
At this place I seriously expected someone to walk in with a big pair of magnets and start “adjusting my chi!”
It’s like he’s selling good feelings.. Come in, I’ll make you feel better by paying some attention to you — which he didn’t even do.
It really pisses me off that in the United States people can lie, and sell you snake oil and there is no law against it. It should be illegal. But the simple fact is, if someone plays on your fears or desires and bilks you out of money you’re just out that money.
At this point I’m not sure what to do. I’m going to go in and get my x-rays at the very least. They can’t charge me for those since I have already paid for them. I feel like I need to talk to a lawyer. I mean at this point I feel like I have been completely taken advantage of.. He was playing on the fact that I was in pain, and doing everything in his slimy power to play on that pain..
What complete vermin. I can only assume he is also doing the same thing to everyone else that goes in there. “Treating them” and giving them “adjustments”. Preying on those who don’t know better or those who can’t see whats going on. They perceive that they are getting better because of his trickery and thus they think they are, when in reality the only thing happening is maybe a mild placebo effect and that time is doing all the work.
Chiropractors aren’t medical doctors. It’s amusing to me that the American Chiropractic Association says “education requirements for doctors of chiropractic are among the most stringent of any of the health care professions”.. What?! Short of maybe.. I dunno.. REAL Doctors.. And any medical profession that has to say how “stringent” their educational requirements are is clearly full of shit. What medical profession has had to try to convince people that their eduction requirements are stringent? None!
I looked into it and to be a “Dr. soandso D.C.” you don’t even need a 4 year degree. The Council on Chiropractic Education sets the minimum guidelines for chiropractic colleges and the minimum prerequisite for enrollment as 90 semester hours, and a 2.50 GPA. Hell, *I* could be a chiropractor.. Oh except my parents were married, and I wouldn’t sully my name by being one.
In the mean time, I’m out $300 and my neck still hurts.
Penn and Teller on Chiropractic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uD_JPtsP-Q Seriously watch this, it’s funny and kinda scary..
Whacking and Cracking by Brian Dunning: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4042
Excellent.. Read this..

First off, you must understand that there are good doctors and bad doctors in every field. This D.C. may not have had a good “bed-side manner” and was terrible about educating patients on what exactly they were doing. I’ll also admit that some of my colleagues have some strange methods, but that is why you do your homework and go to a doctor with good references just like you would a medical doctor. Chiropractic treatment is definitely more broad in it’s options where Allopathic medicine (seeing an M.D.) is more like symptom ABC gets prescription 123. Very cut and dry.
As far as education goes, Check this out:
[ Removing the link. I don't want to give these quacks the hits. ]
The school I went to covers Anatomy, Physiology, Chemistry, Diagnosis, X-ray and Orthopedics in WAY more detail than med schools. And Med schools cover Pathology, Ob/Gyn, and Psychiatry WAY more than Chiro school. The differences are to be expected due to the nature of our work.
As for safety of a Chiropractor, some may find it interesting to know that a Chiropractor’s malpractice insurance is OVER 5 TIMES LESS than any medical doctor’s (at minimum). Insurance premiums are directly related to risk (hence the reason our car insurance is so high due to my speed demon husband) so it can be assumed that seeing a Doctor of Chiropractic is over 5 times less risky than seeing a medical doctor. Just saying…
*sigh*
First off; You link a chiropractic website as proof that chiropractors are some how more educated and know more than real medical doctors. It’s propaganda, pure and simple. The website is owned by a chiropractor.. Hrmm.. More over, there aren’t any such MD websites that countermand this bold (and stupidly false) statement because they don’t need them.
Medical doctors not only know more, but do more for you and they have no need to prove it through propaganda or shenanigans.. Chiropractors do, and do so constantly because they know their image is shady as hell..
( What makes it seem so shady? I dunno maybe everyone’s bad experiences with the profession or people with a 2 year degree coming along making bold statements about how much more they know than MD’s all while demanding to be called Doctor.. Just saying.. )
To say that the school you went to covers anything more thoroughly than a medical school is down right ludicrous.. What school is it? How long did you attend? What’s the normal course length to graduate as a DC there? What was your courses and specific field of study? How many hours did you study Chemistry? How many hours did you put into X-Ray.. etc.. Go on answer, lets put your claims to the test.. I call bullshit and doubt I’ll hear from you again on the matter.
As to malpractice insurance, your argument is sort of like saying it costs less to insure a Ford Escort than it does a Mercedes SLS therefore the Ford Escort is clearly better.. huh? Of course medical insurance is more expensive. Medical insurance has to be high because many of the procedures that they do can be invasive and risky.
That’s because medical doctors ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING!!
Name one thing that a chiropractor does that is as invasive as say; Surgery. Removing an appendix can be risky and can’t be fixed by chiropractic methods no matter what some douche bags say. (I found a link but I refuse to give him the hits.. just google it.)
So to that point, I will agree with you; Chiropractic exams and treatments aren’t very risky at all!! In fact I would say you’re at more risk driving to the chiropractors office, than actually being treated. But then thats because they don’t do anything. They massage you a little, maybe pay attention to you for a few minutes, poke you and prod you, and charge you for the good feelings and CO2 you just got.. They didn’t do anything other possibly enable the placebo effect.
The risky part with any chiropractic “treatment” is and always has been the notion that the “care” you just got is supposed to cure something that is really very wrong and that for which you should have sought real honest medical care.
If you want to, look up the prerequisite requirement and curriculum for UT Southwestern Medical School compared to Parker College of Chiropractic. My school was 3 years long, BUT we don’t get summer vacation like the med students who go for 4 years. I was on a different plan than the current students and had to finish in 9 trimesters vs 10 so I took an average of about 30 hours a semester plus all of my clinic hour requirements. As far as course of study, how many hours, etc., do the comparison yourself if you like. I don’t have time to itemize these for you and you seem to be quite passionate about your hatred for Chiropractic, so I have no doubt that you might actually do it. LOL
And you are totally missing the point of my argument about insurance. Medical doctors try to say that Chiropractic is dangerous, yet our malpractice insurance is significantly lower. My husband’s car insurance is significantly more expensive than mine because he has so many speeding tickets. He is more likely to wreck his car or hurt himself of someone else. He’s higher risk, hence the higher insurance. That was my point.
The are lots of people that have had awesome results from Chiropractic care. People who were told they needed surgery, avoided surgery and are now pain-free. People crippled by headaches are no longer getting headaches. On the other hand there are some that need medical care and are simply not going to get better with Chiropractic alone. I personally choose to use a medical doctor that practices homeopathy on the rare occasion that my family needs medical attention. He doesn’t give the mainstream drugs like all the rest of them do, he uses homeopathic remedies and diet to treat his patients but he’s effective just like myself and colleagues are effective especially with many musculoskeletal issues . Some D.C.s believe that Chiropractic can treat absolutely any issue. I’d have to say I disagree, but google something about Chiropractic helping and you will find millions of success stories whether or not you choose to believe it. If you don’t like Chiropractic, the solution is simple: don’t go see a Chiropractor! Hahaha!
“Real honest medical care,” HAHAHAHAHA!! If you are up for it, I got two videos for you. Food Matters and The Business of Being Born. We’ll see what you think about “real honest medical care” then, my angry friend! Happy blogging!
Lets look at the average MD and their schooling: It typically takes 4 years of undergraduate school to obtain your bachelor’s, followed by an additional 4 years of medical school and then several years of internship before you can even wear the title of MD. On average in the United States, it takes up to 12 years to reach the status of MD.
More over, all MD’s are required by their individual state to participate in ongoing education to make sure their skills stay sharp and that their knowledge is current. They are required to attend yearly classes, in-service training, and seminars. The simple fact of the matter is, as a MD you are never done with school.
Each state varies with the requirements and schooling, though not by a lot as I understand it.
So suddenly that 3 year degree isn’t all that impressive.. I don’t mean to take anything away from you as it sounds like you worked very hard to get the degree, but I question the value.
Either way, the above explains why your raw comparison of curriculum doesn’t even mean anything.. its apples vs oranges.
As to your allegation that MD’s are going around spreading vicious rumors about how dangerous chiropractic is, I’m not seeing it. Is there a danger, sure.. there is danger in anything.. but aside from the odd stroke warning there doesn’t seem to be a huge outcry from MDs defaming DCs or their practices.
Interesting that the opposite isn’t true.
As to Homeopathy.. OH dear god — Are you serious? Have you done any research what so ever as to what Homeopathy is and how it came about?
For a good chuckle, watch this video of James Randi explaining all about Homeopathy and then seriously do some research and reconsider.. He’s 100% truthful and honest.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U
Long story short: Samuel Hahnemann during the medical dark ages (a couple hundred years ago) called himself a doctor, prepared “medicine” of his own invention following his four absurd rules and sold it to people for profit.. He was a snake oil salesman.. Hrmm isn’t that exactly what Daniel Palmer did with his “innate intelligence”..
Ha! http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/chiropractic.html
Thank you James.
Most medical schools do NOT require a bachelor’s degree up front. They require specific prerequisite classes which are identical to the ones required for Chiro school so most D.C.s have a prior bachelor’s degree but a few don’t just like med students. D.C.s also have to do several hours a year in continuing education so that their “skills stay sharp and that their knowledge is current.” As I mentioned before, the three years is without summer breaks so it’s about equal in the time spent in class and if you decide to go on to a more specialized practice such as radiology, you can go to school for an additional 5 years and become a Chiropractic Radiologist (DACBR) or get you could choose to get a diplomate in Neurology, Pediatrics, Sports Practioner, Functional medicine, etc, etc which most do specialize in one way or another depending on their interests requiring hours and hours of additional study. So your argument about education just doesn’t hold up.
Allegations of MDs against DCs is a huge deal whether or not you are “seeing it.” LOL There are blogs, papers, hell, even pamphlets and even billboards that M.D.s have posted about the “dangers of Chiropractic” that make people fearful of us, but that’s really not important to our current argument.
I have a couple of thing for you to think about.
1. I use a radiology center to do all of my x-ray/MRI because I choose not to invest in the equipment when I can use theirs down the street. When I send a patient there I get a report from an M.D. radiologist as well as a Chiropractic radiologist. The M.D.s report is usually about a paragraph and the D.C.s is about a page or more. A patient came in because he has shoulder pain radiating from his neck and numbness in his tongue. I sent him for xray and the D.C.s report described in great detail the surgery, knew that the surgery was to correct a Chiari malformation and suggested the patient return for MRI bc with that surgery and considering the symptoms he was having, he was concerned because some patients develop a cavity in their spinal cord after this particular issue which can put them in a wheelchair as a paraplegic within a few years. The M.D. didn’t so much as mention the “hardware” still left from the surgery he had on his skull and 1st vertebrae. Now tell me who the “quack” is in this situation? This Chiropractor quite literally saved this guy’s life as he knows it because if we had just had the M.D.s report this could have turned into a reversible situation but he can now get it taken care of.
2. I was actually supposed to be an entering freshman at UT Southwestern medical school and even had all of my financial aid approved and ready to go until I had a run-in with a neurologist that completely changed my thinking. I had dizzy spells and headaches and after a CT, MRI, and MRA with this neurologist, I was told that I “just have migraines” like my mother and that I needed to take 2 different kinds of medications with extensive lists of side effects in order to control them. I disagreed as I had done my own research and suggested the possibility of something called cerebral pseudotumor which the doc disagreed over and over again. I tore up the prescriptions and went to my Chiropractor. He went over the radiology reports from the 3 scans I’d had and pointed out that even the radiologist had listed several things that were “congruent with cerebral pseudotumor and needed to be followed up clinically.” The neurologist didn’t even see this statement because he didn’t even LOOK at my reports. The Chiropractor made some suggestions to help my problem naturally and, guess what? It worked!!! I decided that I didn’t even want to have access to medicine because I wanted to challenge myself to treat everything as naturally as possible. I called up UTSW and told them to cancel my financial aid and called Parker college. Who’s the quack? I shouldn’t even have to ask…
The thing is there are “quacks” in all areas. There are crappy Chiropractors, crappy Dentists, crappy Physical therapists, and even some crappy Medical doctors. I could go on an on especially with stories from when I worked in the hospital, but I have a patient on his way for a follow-up who was scheduled for surgery to fuse C4-5-6 but cancelled because after 3 treatments Chiropractic has reduced his pain by about 75% and eliminated the numbness and tingling in his right arm. But that could not have been with my help, because I don’t do anything right??!! I am just some dumb Chiropractor with a sub-par education! LOL
As for homeopathy, if you don’t like it and don’t believe in it, just like Chiropractic, don’t go! LOL A little colloidal silver and one homeopathic remedy and my daughter’s bilateral eye infection was gone in less than 24 hours. I’m in! Medical doctor would have given us an antibiotic which also would have worked but I prefer not to use those unless absolutely necessary because those are abused so much that their effectiveness is going down the toilet slowly but surely hence the danger of MRSA in hospitals. But to each is own. If you like popping pills from your M.D., then by all means, do it!
I have really enjoyed our little argument run we’ve had. I don’t remember how I can across your blog. I wasn’t looking for anything like this, just came upon it by accident. The funny thing is that as much as you are trying to discredit me and my profession, it’s actually making me stronger because if someone puts me on the spot with an argument similar to any of yours I can recall things that I said to you quickly as it’s fresh in my brain and debunk their arguments very effectively. LOL Maybe I’ll just crash more blogs if I find any similar or create one of my own. Haha!
Happy blogging, Jason!
After doing some more research it seems you’re right about the bachelors degree and medical schools. I will concede the point that in order to be a MD you don’t need to have a BA. I was misinformed. However, you have yet to prove to me at all anywhere that DC’s are some how more educated than an MD which seemed to be your point above.
More over, no where did I call you a “dumb chiropractor with a sub-par education”. If you choose to be offended then that’s on you. The fact of the matter is you’re likely more educated than I am. What I post here are my observations and opinions and as such they are my own, yet it’s interesting how many other people out there with absolutely no ulterior motive is also “trying to discredit you and your profession”. If I were a MD and bashing DC’s then you could easily dismiss anything I said as professional rivalry, but that isn’t the case.
As to the danger of chiropractic procedures, my previous statements stands and no one has been able to counter it; those chiropractors that use “strange methods” to use your words and sell only good feelings, some attention and CO2 are a danger to their patients because they are using big scary words and funky devices to convince good people that they need some unnecessary procedure. The “doctors” then charge exorbitant fees for said treatment over the course of sometimes months all the while couching those proceedings in good will and trust. That makes them sham artists and those kinds of shenanigans DO go on whether you practice them or not.
They are a danger to their customers because those individuals feel that they have gone to an expert who has their individual issue in hand and it’s being treated. When instead all they are doing is being taken advantage of and their medical needs are going unmet potentially worsening their condition. If you don’t do this then bully for you, but you’re clearly the minority. You have only to read the comments on this post to see all of the other folks who have had shady dealings with people in your profession. Or google it.
I’m sure chiropractic procedures have come a long way in the last hundred years, but the truth of the matter is they would have to considering chiropractic treatments were developed and defined by an inventor (Daniel D. Palmer) who was a new age healer who swore by the healing power of magnets and his ability to manipulate the immaterial spiritual essence that courses through our nervous system called “Innate intelligence”. Do you preach this to your customers? Do you wave magnets over people and tell them they are cured? Probably not, but there are those that do.
Ask yourself this; why would chiropractors need to redefine an orthopedic term to mean something else completely unless there was a plan to use it to bewilder and scare?
The cornerstone of modern chiropractic procedures and triage seems to be the subluxation. A bullshit term that they constantly define and redefine to be painfully vague, scary and completely unverifiable through any other means.
An orthopedic subluxation is a partial dislocation of a joint and as such is extremely bad and completely verifiable through image studies. A chiropractic subluxation is this theoretic problem that isn’t visible on any image study or remotely verifiable by any means other than apparently to make people stand on scales to check their weight or check to see if one leg is longer than another..etc.. Oh and to take the “doctors” word for it that you desperately need his help!
Its bullshit. It’s complete bullshit. You know it and I know it.
So, what about subluxations? How often have you told a customer that they have a subluxation? Because if you have ever said it, even once, you are a fraud. Period.
If you aren’t one of those DC’s then fine you’re one of the good ones.
“As for homeopathy, if you don’t like it and don’t believe in it, just like Chiropractic, don’t go.”
Here we go again, you have to “believe” in this treatment for it to work.
As I said above, that’s not medicine.. If I don’t believe in penicillin or Advil, it still works.. Yet for some reason for me to get any benefit out of your chiropractic treatments or homeopathy preparations I have to “believe”?
Requiring blind faith in some treatment for it to work is no different than what extreme religious faiths and cults do with their faith healing. It’s absolutely no different. Any and all perceived or actual benefits can be entirely explained by the placebo effect or the bodies own ability to heal itself with time. I just find it interesting how many homeopaths or chiropractors will be more than happy to take credit (and charge) for said results.
In my very first comment I stated; “I’m willing to concede that there are likely some chiropractors that aren’t complete fakes. But the methods they employ MUST be radically different than the ones I have seen so far.”
And that still holds true, but it’s apparent to me and those who seem to agree with me through this post and through countless others that the vast majority of the chiropractors out there are frauds with no more noble intent than to bilk the next sucker out of some money.
I am not a one man crusade out to crush a profession. There seems to be a rather large number of shady chiropractors out there as is evidenced by all the similar stories to mine, maybe instead of arguing with me you should urge those folks to fix their image and stop making your profession look bad..
I find it interesting that instead you seem to prefer trying to make me change my tune than to make them change theirs.
I never intended to prove that DCs are MORE educated, just that we are not LESS educated than MDs which was your argument all along.
As far as Chiropractors giving unnecessary treatments to patients I agree it definitely happens. Hell, I dropped my “mentor” because I believed he was over-treating, but you can argue that medical doctors have been known to do the same thing, a more specific example is when it comes to surgery. Orthopedic surgeons are in the business of doing surgery. That’s how they make their money. I’ve met tons of people who had surgery and still suffer from the issue they went under for. Some have had multiple surgeries for the same thing. Did they need the surgery? Maybe, maybe not. But they trust the doctor’s judgement regardless. I’ve also treated tons of people whom have been told they needed surgery, and through Chiropractic care, no longer suffer any pain or symptomatology and have not gone on for surgery. And I didn’t even use magnets or shake chicken bones or give them snake oil! LOL I’m not saying two wrongs make a right by any means, but simply pointing out that we must be cautious with who we trust with our healthcare. If someone wants to go to a Chiropractor or ANY doctor, I recommend they talk to friends and or family and choose one that suits them.
“Belive” was a BAD choice of wording on my part. I should have known you’d run with that. Haha! If there is a placebo effect in my office, it’s minimized by my methods which I believe to be similar to most of my colleagues. In my practice I take photographs of my patient’s posture before their first treatment and every few treatments and also take measurements of ranges of motion to get an unbiased, numerical reading of their progress just to name a couple of examples. This is allows me to show my patients whether (or not) we are helping. If we’ve reached a plateau in progress we change things up, add exercises, stretches etc. if they even need to continue care at all. Because I know about a thousand more Chiropractors than you do, I am confident to put you at east that you are incorrect in your assumption that a “vast majority” of Chiropractors practice the more outlandish techniques. My last trimester of school 2 students out of about 100 were reprimanded for treating patients with some of these methods you must be referring to. This is definitely not the norm and schools are taking steps to minimize this. I can only assume that your assumption is solely based on blogs and threads you’ve seen on the internet and it’s a fact that people whom have bad experiences are far more likely to speak up than people who had a good one. For instance, if you went to a restaurant and saw a rat or bug crawl across the kitchen floor, you might tell 5 people, but if you went to a restaurant that seemed completely clean you wouldn’t tell anyone because there was nothing of concern. That’s just human nature.
I’m sure you are correct in that lots of people have had “shady dealing” with DCs and you encouraged me to google that. Well, I encourage you to google the positive experiences too as well as “shady dealings” with other types of docs such as orthopedic surgeons. (I just searched the latter and found a TON of articles about unnecessary surgeries) And next time you lean over to pick something up and one of your paraspinal muscles spasms causing one of your lumbar vertebrae which it’s connected to to get yanked to one side sending horrible pain down the back your butt into the back of your leg due to a nerve impingement, go to your MD and get some muscle relaxers and a pain killer if you like and don’t mind the side effects of. My patients can continue to come to my office when this happens and I can give them immediate relief by fixing the problem at it’s source (the spinal fixation or “subluxation” as some of my colleagues call it) as well as teach them ways to prevent that from happening in the future. (By the way that ‘s’ work has created a huge divide amongst our profession and I personally prefer not to use it… shhhh!!)
As far as arguing with you, that’s just for sport
The truth is I like you Jason. You are a very good debater. I like to think I am too and I love a challenge so I am thoroughly enjoying myself and learning a ton from you about how some of the public may view my profession and how I can work to better it. I’ve also been brainstorming ideas for my website, newsletters and health talks, so I thank you for that!